What is a Ruined Husband in a Woman's World

About a month ago, my wife's boss invited us to join her and her husband on a houseboat at a lake in the south over the 4th of July weekend.

Being totally feminized, with no way of hiding it in swimwear, I was nervous about being around a bunch of rednecks. Though my wife enjoyed torturing me up until the last minute, she allowed me to pack close to gender neutral clothes, wear thong sandals with only clear paint on my nails and skimpy Speedos for swimming.

There were nine couples standing around on the dock as we arrived. Who knows how many cocks I've had up my ass but I didn't look any more of a pussy than the other guys. The women directed everything and the men complied.

Three couples had small youngren. The men watched the kids while the wives started takeing beer and jokinng around while they took over all the things men used to do. They paid for the boats, talked to the dock employees and gassed up.

We had a big houseboat, a pontoon, two ski boats and two waverunners. The women drove the ski boats and waverunners while the guys were ordered to drive the pontoon and houseboat to a cove to set up a place to dock. None of the guys wanted to drive. There was so much bickering I ended up piloting the houseboat though I had no idea what I was doing and three of the other guys continued to fight over who got to run the massive kitchen.

It took forever to go to the place we'd be ordered to find. We were still trying to get the boats in place when the women returned. They took over and got all the boats docked together. After telling us the rules, including a remidner to pee sitting down, they jumped into the lake to float.

They played the music they wanted to listen to. The men shuttled them takes and watched the kids and started cooking lunch. All the guys were a little shy about stripping down. Of course, my wife ordered me to drop my shorts and layout on the back deck of the boat. Fat or skinny, the women teased as the others followed my lead. Wives openly talked about their husbands needing to lose weight in front of everyone.

One of the guys sat down on a chair next to me. He was feeding his baby complaining to me about how his wife never changed a poop diaper in her life. Another guy came out and they bonded talking about eco-friendly cleaning products.

That night, we went back to the dock and ate dinner at a lodge. The women went out and we waited until they returned. All of them were takes and torqued up and I took a hard fucking but no worse than what I heard coming from the other rooms.

Living near SF I had no idea how much the rest of the country changed. Once I started noticing it, everywhere I looked men had taken over the subservient role. At the airport in Atlanta, men were watching the bags and the youngren while the wives were doing whatever.

Is it going to be much longer before all but the bulls are ruined?

This may get me tossed, but... It's been PLANNED this way, believe it or not, all that conspiracy BS? Not all BS.
Men have been conditioned in many ways, mass media being a primary (Think: Smurfs, GI Joe, He-Man/She-ra, thundercats, Snorks, even Heathcliff and Garfield - and now we look at the sitcoms, and see not a single intelligent man out there! Closest I know of is actually the cartoon, King of the Hill! Look at the commercials, too... How about Teen Mom, one of the stars is a violent user... and it's NOT the man! )

Men used to be able to make a "name" for themselves by being providers. Now, women not only can earn their own way, in several fields they OUT EARN male counterparts: Engineering and Nursing, for example. So the Beta male loses here.
With basic necessities met by their own jobs, women are "free" to pursue the men who make their 'ginas tingle: Alphas. Whether by looks, breeding, money, social dominance (which can include the others, BTW), these men are able to be unpredictable, untamable, STIMULATING in the lizard hind-brain of women.
Betas are less aggressive, less dominant, and less unpredictable - so they are left out.

Permisterally, I just find women so stimulating I want to BE one... Find a nice lipstick lez, have frequent screaming sex, all is good.
But the primary differences between the sexes (not genders in this discussion, please) has been aggression and thought patterns.
Male aggression: Dominance through physical power or s*******, thinking in logical linear patterns.
Woman aggression: Social control (IE, dominance via words, seducing, insinuating, etc; excluding those who are not "good enough" by whatever criteria); thinking more emotionally controlled, and often erattic and unstable because of that.

Now, use mass media to promulgate the memes: Girls can do ANYTHING boys can do, which soon turns to girls can do it better. Girls should be in charge, they are MORE intelligent, MORE capable, etc. Men are oafs who need to be directed and cleaned up after. Women are superior. Men are deadbeats, womanizers, users, can't handle youngren, are afraid of commitment, etc, etc, etc. Add in a feminized school system: how many male teachers do you have? Did YOU have, growing up? Do you meet?

Further, tell women they should be turned on by masculine endeavors (Strength training, weigh lifting, sports, competition) while making boys work in groups (group projects, anyone? Leadership by consensus?) and make it CRIMINAL for boys to behave like boys (call police on kindergarten boys kissing WILLING girls, for example? Or suspend a boy for drawing a soldier, or playing cowboys and indians, or kickball, or have him for making too much noise or not sitting stilll....) You get the idea.

I could go on, but this isn't an MRA board, so it's out of place. Look up Roissy.wordpress.com for dating advice, and FalseRapeSociety.com (I think that's the URL) for some of the horror stories out there...

Worst part is, Men are getting ANGRY. They are noticing. Even someone like me, who WANTS to be a woman, believes this has become an systemic use of female power, and as a man (still got all the parts, and the strength), I'm *** to support the double-standard: It's not cute when a woman hits a man in the balls, unless it's ALSO cute when a man hits a woman in her tits. It's NOT OK for a girl to scream about men (she doesn't want) noticing her, if she dresses to be noticed. It is ALSO not OK for her to bitch there are no good men around, if she pursues men who DO NOT WANT commitment. If you pursue a Bad Boy Biker with three kids by three women, YOU DESERVE WHAT HAPPENS TO YOU. YOU HAD to know it AHEAD OF TIME.

And marriage being what it is, forget about this as a LIFESTYLE, but think as a REALITY - Lots of WOMEN cheat, too. There's a reamister your mister looks a little like the mailman/UPS man/pool boy/guy on the wanted poster... And has black hair when both you and your wife are blond...

The US especially is circling the drain, but the rest of the Anglosphere isn't much better, and most of the Western world is falling apart. Really lousy, actually.

Wealth is accumulating in the hands of a VERY few, and corporations, while the middle class is shrinking, the permanent underclasses are getting larger and more violent, and even those who have lived through wars and have their youngren and grandyoungren at risk are talking REVOLUTION.
Not just Rednecks...
Not just Blacks...
Not just the Young, who always have their hormones running their mouths...

The older demographic, who have watched people die, who have family at risk, are saying enough is enough. We cannot ignore uns*******ed illegal immigration; we cannot ignore government wealth dispersals that take from YOU and ME to give to Charlie up the street, AND the Kennedy/Rockefeller/name whomever you want -> NOW, Soybean farmers, corn farmers, pig farmers, Monsanto, Kraft, McDonnel douglas, etc, etc, etc, ad finitum. less than half the population in the US is carrying the rest of the country. Think about that....

I don't want to get into the "women should know their place" meme, but... Maybe the Herd (society) shouldn't FORCE women to take on what was once a man's role, and make her feel like less of a woman if she wants to have a family. Or, if she SHOULD go out into the world and earn her way there, make her EARN it - she works as hard as everyone else, OK; she doesn't, can her. Oh, that's SEX DISCRIMINATION!
Double standard much?
Male emotions are bad, female ones are good.
Male thoughts are bad, female thoughts are good.
Male reamistering is bad, female reamistering is good.
Male cheating is bad, female cheating is empowering, and if he were capable at home, she wouldn't be out there anyway.
Blame the victim much???

OK, it's TOO FAR off topic, PM me if you want resources, though I fear a fair number of the resources aren't exceptionally friendly to femme men... But they ARE less hostile in my experience than the general public, too.

BTW, if fitness is a permisteral issue, i'd suggest some basic exercises be added to your daily schedule, especially Ashtanga Yoga if possible, and bodyweight calisthenics. Swimming, too, but DO NOT do Butterfly, it WILL build out the Laterals, making you look VERY MALE... Makes you look big and scary. fine if that's what you want, but likely not the objective here. And the reamister for calisthenics (which includes Pilates, BTW, and can include yoga and tai chi) is to build strength without building mass. I don't WANT a 24" biceps. I'd love a 24" waist (my D-cups... Well, they WERE, probably C now due to weight loss) would look SO HOT then... Too bad most women want men. :-P Can't win for losing.

Look for blogs on training, BTW - there are articles targeting women, on how to build the muscularity a woman wants. If you wife wants you femme, and you're OK with it, build those muscles around the hips and glutes, and burn the fat, while keeping shoulders slim. You'll look femme, and STILL have strength for almost anything you need, especially if you work the core and know some leverage. I used to move the corporate UPSs (Uninterruptable power supplies, basically 220 pound battery packs) SOLO. And I was about 200 pounds, with 30% or mroe body fat, so I did NOT look like a body builder - but I could move them by using arms at one end, legs as a lever, and lifting as needed with the back.

You don't need to look like Schwarzenegger to be strong, as many women prove EVERY DAY. (PROVE, mind - these aren't your affirmative action whores pretending, they really ARE that tough!) My grandlady comes to mind, actually - Irish battle-axe, she used to stoke the furnace in the days of coal. the kids got a kick out of tying a shoelace around her arm and watching her flex and burst it. The old lady had balls...

Think about it... Think where YOU want to be, and how SOCIETY should be, even if they don't match up - decide which is more important, if they are mutually exclusive, and then MAN UP and do something about it.

steyraug96-at-yahoo.com
(Warning, i'm slow to respond and get hundreds of spam a day. Bad combination.)

Those who idealize the past do not understand it

wow machic.
good words!

I don't idealize the past. To counter cliche with cliche, those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. America is the new Rome, and the people behave the same ways, for the same reamisters.

The complaint above, once you strip out the role-reversal aspect of the sexuality, is the SAME as Rome. (Actually, in some ways, even WITH the role-reversed sexuality. Nero was every woman's husband, and every man's wife. :-P)

I don't think anyone here has issues with the role-reversal.
I think the real complaint underlying it is, WHY is there such a BROAD role reversal? Why are women told to be MEN, and men told to be WOMEN? WTF? Why not let men be men and women be women, and those who want to reverse things reverse things, and everyone goes their happy way?

And why are the Bulls unaffected, or able to rise above it?

And to be blunt, part of it is western society's politeness. We're not as polite as we used to be, but i've seen in 30 years a MASSIVE change in demographics and attitudes, and yes, the two go together, and they're worst on the coasts (Though for the west, it's still hearsay for me.)

Take a male young that must be "civilized" by women, tell him via media and teachers and other indoctrination that girls are special, virtuous, pure little flowers and snowflakes, fragile, man must take care of women. Drug or beat out any rebellion or spontaneity.
Tell female youngren they can do anything a boy can do, and better, and then teach them the biological imperative of scarcity and scarce pussy (9 months vs. 15 seconds - investment in offspring and biological weaknesses are FACT, like it or not. Modern society has minimized and mitigated, not removed.)
Then introduce more aggressive, less indoctrinated males into that population. The original male youngren, generally white, asian, and/or jewish, are at a disadvantage because they've been socially conditioned to be less aggressive and less assertive. Read: LESS INTERESTING. The others are more macho, more arrogant, and care less about the women. Read: MORE INTERESTING AND SPONTANEOUS/UNPREDICTABLE.

The rest is biological math, and has nothing to do with the board here; it is just female hypergamy (looking for best sperm donors, with fitness defined as aggression, height, social dominance, wealth, physical fitness - real or perceived, and not giving one cuckolds brownie about her, let alone two, because he has OPTIONS. She acts up, he moves on, no problem.)

Roissy is right about that, the actions that attract a woman, when she doesn't NEED protection from marauding bands of another tribe, doesn't NEED a man to hunt for her, and doesn't NEED a man as a provider, well - they don't mimic a good Beta Provider. They DO mimic a bull.

End of story.

And that doesn't even address the fun or fantasy aspects of this.

Lastly, I don't mean to suggest that cuckoldry never happened in the "good old days." too many stories and mistergs to suggest such a thing. Further, neither men nor women had cornered the market on virtue (nor vice).

But without a core society of people, generally men, who can fight to protect that society, and have common shared ideals that are core to that ENTIRE society.... You (a) do not HAVE a society, you have multiculturalism (IE, nothing in common), and (b) won't have a country for long, as it will rot from the inside, and people who can will leave, while the rest resort to barbarism and might makes right or survivalist mentalities.

Please note, there is really no relevance about who is "on top". It doesn't matter who is doing whom. It matters that women get hurt more frequently, and more severely, under prolonged physical stress. (See US Army stats on injuries.) It matters that women are saddled with youngbirth, as we don't have artificial wombs yet. It matters that the bonds of a society are religious, ethnic, cultural, shared language, shared ideas, COMMON to all people in that society.
Simple observation: If you're a pacifist and have a gold bar, I can take that gold bar and turn it into what I want. your belief in pacifism will allow me to take it from you, ******* you, **** you, whatever - because we do not believe the same things. Game over, that's it.

We all have to play by the same rules, or we're playing different games, and if you're playing chess and i'm playing paintball, we won't get along. On the other hand, if I play the black side of the board, and you play the white side of the board, we can have a GREAT game of chess - we agreed on the rules, you see, and we're both playing chess.

THAT much we need to go back to. Whether men are taking it in the @$$ or women are is irrelevant. As long as the pitcher and the catcher agree who is doing what role, they've formed a stable social unit (generally referred to as a family.) Destroy the family, destroy the society. Ask Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Che, Frieden, etc, etc, etc. Meantime, I didn't mention GLBT - just assigned roles. Still a family unit. Multiple families agreeing to play by the same rules makes a society. town, City, State, Country, all communities. All bound by common beliefs and common language to articulate those beliefs.

Even here, where men and women are coming together in a shared love of cuckoldry, whether being cuckolds, getting cuckolded, watching their wives with other men, etc, etc, etc. - we formed a community, even if online.

how can you think different rules apply offline than online? Are we not the same creatures out there in Real Life? Same biology, same thoughts, same bodies?

Let me re-phrase the original post in two lines:
Why are women acting like men USED to act, when what men USED to do was so objectionable?
Why are men being punished when they act like men, yet their WIVES go for even more Macho men so they can still feel "feminine" despite their aping the complained about male behavior?

All societies fail eventually, and usually from inside, not from outside.

You don't even understand the past, so how can you learn from it -- Rome flourished for two centuries-plus AFTER the reign of Nero!! It survived and held sway despite the moral decay (or whatever you want to call it) for far longer that the U.S. republic has even been in existence. It reached its greatest size and power long after the period of which you speak. In fact, it wasn't until it banned paganism and implemented Christianity as a state religion (which helped create the rigid gender roles of which you appear to be so fond) that Rome failed, somewhat from the inside but mostly from outside -- ever hear of Attila the Hun?

And just FYI, the actual quote from Santayana = "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" -- note that it doesn't guarantee that those who CAN remember aren't likewise condemned to repeat it, and it doesn't say anything about learning from the past!!

And just FYI, the actual quote from Santayana = "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" -- note that it doesn't guarantee that those who CAN remember aren't likewise condemned to repeat it, and it doesn't say anything about learning from the past!!

1 - I was too lazy to look it up, thank you for being precise.
2 - You are correct, it's not a guarantee.

The Barbarian tribes were paid by Rome to act as guardians of the frontier, they then realized they could go to Rome and get the treasures directly.

Not sure about the implementation of Christianity as the turning point; after all - Constantine is a good example of progression, as opposed to decay. Let's also recall that the registry of prostitutes occurred in the decline of Rome; whether the two are linked is open to debate.

There is also something to be said for the change in technology between the empires we are discussing. We have much faster communications, and also much more crap being spouted as fact. Hence Pastafarian (Which I had always taken as an intentional farce, but... ) In addition, we are larger, and though we are still looking at sort-of conquest, we're generally coming home after we send our dog packs out to fight somewhere. (Good or bad, we generally don't colonize any more.)
Side note, the Holy Roman Empire wasn't Roman in more than name.

I think the original question is still valid - why are there so few community-minded masculine men? (Even allowing for the self-selective nature of this board.) Why is there a crisis in masculinity? If there were a crisis in education of women, we'd hear about it... Breast cancer, women's health, women's choices, women's business needs, you name it... Not so for men, men must do it on their own.

Why the double standard?
Why the lack of masculine men?

Those two are not being answered, and I think, even allowing for the audience here - there currently is no answer.
But we're falling apart form inside and out, and Americans are beginning to vote with their feet - expatriating. (It's even on H&G network, house hunters international.)

i'm not as fond of the gender binary as you think. I identify as TG. I like women. I like femininity. I don't think women should be told that being feminine is wrong, immoral, a betrayal of the sisterhood, or inappropriate. AT THE SAME TIME, Men should NOT be told it is wrong to be Masculine - stoic, strong, assertive (not aggressive), adventurous, risk takers, etc.
And if women want to take on that role? Why not? But if you want to play with "the boys," play by THEIR rules. Don't change the game to favor you. Same the other way around - if the boys want to play with the girls, they need to play by the girls' rules.
Why is this an issue?

Space for everyone. But step into my space, play by my rules. Break the rules, bear the consequences.

Germanic tribes were pressured from the east by the Huns.

The "decline of Rome" as you call it began at the height of the Pax Romana, the heyday of imperial power.

The "fall" occurred in the decades after Constantine, esp. the fifth century by which time most people in Europe had adopted some version of Xty and that includes a great many of the Germanic tribes, though of course not the Franks, Saxons, Angles, etc. -- they brought paganism BACK to many areas, and there is no evidence that they shared our modern ideas re: gender.

Finally, as to your main premise -- is there anything beyond anecdotal evidence to suggest that men have grown less masculine while women have grown more so. Seems likely that the proportions have not changed; society has simply evolved to the point where they no longer hide their true nature via limited opportunity.

p.s. what does this mean? -- "Space for everyone. But step into my space, play by my rules. Break the rules, bear the consequences."

p.s. what does this mean? -- "Space for everyone. But step into my space, play by my rules. Break the rules, bear the consequences."

By that I meant, pardon the pun, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." And vice-versa, when the Romans come here, they must abide by our rules.
If I go to a Chinese permister's home, and they maintain the custom of removing shoes when entering the building, I should do the same. Conversely, I should not be expected to provide slippers for them when they enter my home; they should just wear their shoes.
If a western woman goes to a Muslim country and the rules of that country insist she cover her head, she should do so. The alternative is, don't go there. Don't expect the residents to let you walk around with your head UNcovered, and not even look twice.
Similarly, the banning of the burqa and head scarf... There's a REASON: (esp the burqa) hides all facial structure, obscuring the wearer's identity, even including sex. That's important here...


I actually disagree that society is more accepting. I think the reactionary knee-jerk tendencies of many people these days are a reaction to unwelcome excessive public displays of attention - Pride parades with people wearing less than would be accepted on a Brazilian beach? The "flamer" styles?

OTOH, who you do what with in the bedroom? Who cares? (Acknowledged there are some idiots with too much time on their hands and noses that need punching, but generally, no issue.)

But again, rules... You want to be femme, fine, but put effort into it. Do it up right, don't be a charicature of a woman, or a poof. Women can be aggressive; why can't men be soft and tender? That doesn't require the lisping, mincing, prancing sort of permistera effected by (too) many gays - Look up Jack Donovon's rant on the situation. He IS gay, and still rails against the overly "prissy" (re Prissy's Sissies, but in male attire).

Men have less chance to do things, though - riding a desk is fairly mundane. Shuffling papers, programming, QA testing, writing out business plans... no real conquering there. Women have been "liberated" from being primary young care-givers; now they are REQUIRED to work, basically. Two incomes to tax... Government LOVES that idea. A man who stays at home to watch the kids? Loser, dead beat, wimp, pussy, etc.

Seems we still have some "equality" to go there.

Further, the "male power" counterpart is "female power", and women had their own strengths and domains; they have moved into men's domains (business, academia), but there is no corresponding counter-move by men into women's space. Look up Faux Whore's blog, read about the difference she experienced between her male self, and her later trip to medical support as her female self... Enlightening, and she's been on both sides, so... Maybe good to listen to her.

Now, i'm in sort of a dilemma, since the woman doesn't like anything along these lines... But being TG, I took 'mones for a while, and she's jealous of my cheswt. I live as male, though - and I've been losing weight...

i'm starting to show in a bad way... The belly is going, the breast tissue won't. :-P (She knew about it, but still - it will affect my future employment, I think... )

Certain irony in that... And that, for all her dominant bitch attitude, she's still the "woman" in the bedroom, but won't be submissive. (Too bad those do NOT line up... :-P )

so ... no real evidence then.

And I know what the words mean, just wondering why you included them.