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MrsBlackBlowupDoll
Member
208
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# Posted: 27 Jul 2008 21:58:36
Reply
Ahhh, I see. I misunderstood you.
I'm also a bit taken back by how emphatic your reply was. Please understand that I never meant to suggest you were being judgmental or argumentative, etc. I assumed you were making a discussion point and I was taking up the discussion, not trying to start a debate.
I am also inclined to agree with your inclination that non-communication is the killer of this kind (and all kinds) of relationships. Honesty and understanding are at a premium in cuckold situations. I also agree completely that different people have different levels that they can accept. As you say, you could never live with the situation ValGal 's husband is now in and I imagine (as you again say) that many men could not handle it (or would not want to). But I still think it is a debatable point that such an arrangement "leads [to] the risk of losing each other."
It seems to me that life is dynamic and inaction therefore a choice itself, as fully fraught with risk as any course one might take. Depending on their situation, a couple might well run as big (or even a bigger) risk of losing each other by choosing another course - even the course of doing nothing.
As I said, I'm not trying to be argumentative and I'm sorry if my view upsets you. I thought ValGal and some of the other readers might be interested.
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mred4682
Member
173
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# Posted: 28 Jul 2008 16:51:44
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MrsBlackBlowupDoll,
I was never upset here.
All I know is the one time that my wife tried spending time with another guy alone she started to build a connection and it was the hardest time in our relationship. She agrees that she was majorly confussed and didn't like the effect it had on me.
Are we better for it now? I don't think so, but a lot of that is because of my inability to let it go. We did talk about it and know what we will avoid in the future.
The way I'm reading your posts, it sounds like your saying people should have no limits and do anything and everything that they want when they want. This is just my take on the way your saying things, I could be tottally wrong.
I believe people should use their lives as an empty canvas and know that they can do absolutely anything, but then decide what their limits are with those that are closest to them. Because living without any guids can and does pull people apart, in my humble opinion. Of course maybe thats because I'm not as capable as some people at letting things go.
Either way I think I have taken this conversation WAY off thread. I hope everyone has fun however they decide to direct their lives.
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asehpe
Member
46
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# Posted: 29 Jul 2008 02:45:49
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ValGal,
I am really, really, really sorry to see that your attempt at building a family with your two men did not work out. Much as I respect (and in a sense even understand) your bf's desire to find someone all for himself -- I'm sure after his divorces he's also walked some rough terrain -- you seem to be such a nice person that it is sad to hear you've not got the happiness you so richly deserve.
I've also had some seriously disturbing events in my life, which explains why I didn't even try to return to this site, and makes me feel even more empathy with you. What can one say, other than there'll be better days, perhaps another bf, whatever? That feelings of hurt end up fading slowly into daily routine, till the next exciting event shines a new light on our worlds?... But judging by the little elf-like picture I see next to your name, and by the general tone of your posts, you are a pretty mature and solid person. I am sure you will figure this happiness business out, with some help from hubby and any other willing participant(s). Life may be tough, but we're tougher! 
Sincerely wishing you all the best,
Asehpe
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ValGal
Member
87
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# Posted: 2 Aug 2008 16:22:58
Reply
Asehpe, thanks for the kind and sincere words...I appreciate it.
As time goes by, I suppose it becomes easier, but we had about 3 years of some of the most intimate connection I could imagine. It may have started out as a purely sexual thing, but he was a genuinely good person, very compatible with me, and deserving of all the loving I could give him.
Still, I can see his side too, and I suppose because I had strong feelings for him, I want him to get what he wants out of life. In this sense, I suppose it's been a growth opportunity for me: balancing my needs, versus the needs of someone I care for, and being adult enough to do the right thing when the time comes.
Anyway, my hubby continues to be just beyond anything I could hope for in terms of his ongoing support and loving. Our relationship is subtly different now...probably emotionally closer. For one thing, I guess hubby finally understands that his greatest fear is unfounded...if ever I was going to dump him in favor of someone else, it would have been now. Yet, the thought never really crossed my mind. It's not just "she says she'll never leave" - now he has evidence.
I suppose hubby and I are slowly also re-negotiating a few things in our relationship, probably for the better. We're having more fun with his feminine side, and I think the sense of inadequacy he had in the bedroom is fading. Not so much because of anything specific, but just because he's been able to see close-up how much I value the emotional bond we have.
Anway, thanks to everyone else who's been posting and sending me private messages of support.
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dblue1
Member
118
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# Posted: 2 Aug 2008 18:50:28
Reply
Val_gal can you explain some of the things you are renegotiating with your husband and how you are working on his feminine side?
With his sense of inadequecy in the bedroom fading do you think he'll want to become physically intimate with you again - or would that dent his sense of femininity?
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asehpe
Member
46
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# Posted: 4 Aug 2008 06:14:52
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ValGal,
at least in my experience one of the hallmarks of love is precisely the capacity to wish the best for the loved one, even when it's not the best for oneself. Even if it means losing something beautiful, like what you and your boyfriend had. Even if it means letting go.
This is a very difficult thing to do, and I'll assume it was as difficult for him as it was for you. And yet both of you seem to have done the right, adult thing. From your description, it would seem that staying together would have led to conflicts in your bf's mind that would eventually undermine your relationship.
I see he is quite a guy. I'll wish him luck, too.
I'm glad to see you and hubby getting closer. I must admit I wasn't sure myself at first whether or not you'd choose your hubby; I was afraid for him. I'm curious about how your relationship will evolve, after this period of hardship. (I think it was Nietzsche who said that what doesn't kill us makes us stronger. Probably the same is true for bonds like yours.) Unless he also becomes your active sexual partner -- which, as dblue1 points out, might hurt his female side -- I suppose at some point he -- and maybe you too? -- will want you to find another bf. But certainly not now; you need time to reassess yourself.
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imasub2000
Member
26
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2008 00:33:39
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Hi ValGal,
I have been away for a little while and have just been catching up on things. I am very happy to hear that things are becoming a little easier with time. I can imagine that all of this has been anything but easy. I think that through all of this, the true bond between you and your husband shines through. He is truly a wonderful man to be as supportive as hes been, and you are truly a wonderful woman to be understanding to his desires. I hope some of that makes sense but I guess what im trying to say is that its an awesome thing to have such a strong bond between the two of you. I hope it continues to grow stronger and things continue to get easier.
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clive anthony
Member
211
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# Posted: 7 Aug 2008 20:30:18
Reply
my wife lost interest in me a very long time ago. she came home one evening and slid off her panties and lay on our bed telling me" you have one hour to do anything you want to me so hurry up and get that tiny cock into me or finger me or if you want you can use my dildoe collection but remember this is the last chance you have to feel my insides .hurry up the clocks ticking". i was stunned but soon got going as she just lay there reading .the only time she moaned was when i pushed her biggest vibe up her . but my tiny cock just spurted over her leg making her very angry. i have been told to post some pics of me to explain why she needs another man inside her.
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she says i must get used to the fact that i have a tiny penis and she will bring lovers home .
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ValGal
Member
87
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# Posted: 23 Aug 2008 14:55:40
Reply
Haven't checked in lately, so I figured I'd offer an update...
Nothing major to report. I'm still basically "single" (except for hubby), although I dragged myself out on a few awkward first dates that haven't gone anywhere. I've been doing a lot of reading about polyamory, and I think the idea feels comfortable to me - it's who I am at heart, and I suspect eventually I will find my (other) mate.
Hubby seems okay with this whole approach. It's sort of the cuck life he seems to crave, but maybe not so intentionally humiliating. He gets to have more of a voice as an equal among three people this way. Not saying we'll go back to some sort of deep, sexual relaitonship - there can be differences in who gets what - but at the emotional level, it doesn't feel as abusive to him.
One of the posters asked about his fem side, and yes, it is way out in the open at this point.
Somewhere it got blurry whether it was part of his day to day life, or just a fetish he occassionally indulged in. Well, while he hasn't started wearing dresses in public every day, his whole persona has become much more feminine and he's sort of landed in an "ambiguous" or totally unisex place. He shaves his body, grew his hair and fingernails and mostly wears sort of masculine woman's clothes every day...he's truly the type that people stare at and can't really tell M vs. F. When he does put on a skirt, he seems sort of peaceful in a strange way...it suits him in some very deep way.
He hasn't done any of the drastic, life-changing things yet, but I suspect at least some of that is in the future for him at the pace he's going. I struggled a bit early on, but now I am completely accepting and do my best to let him know I will love him no matter what. Not that he's likely to get in my pants either way, but I do care deeply and want to see him achieve whatever it is he wants for himself.
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dblue1
Member
118
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# Posted: 23 Aug 2008 17:27:11
Reply
Val_Gal, what kind of life altering things do you think will happen in his future? Is his feminine side interested in men? If he was, would that freak you out?
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ValGal
Member
87
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# Posted: 24 Aug 2008 19:10:43
Reply
dblue1, other than perhaps feeling betrayed if I found out he wanted someone else, I don't think it would surprise me if hubby had attraction to guys. I think he might see it as sort of the ultimate acknowledgement of his fem side, and I suppose if he went that way, I'd try my best to be happy for him.
As far as what might happen in the future, I really can't say, but again, it wouldn't shock me if hubby decided he wanted to have plastic surgery, go on hormones or something like that. The more I see him "out", the more I see that he seems happier that way, and because I love him, I want him to experience whatever makes him the happiest.
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dblue1
Member
118
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# Posted: 3 Sep 2008 13:12:36
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ValGal, you are an awesome woman.
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alex_th
Member
101
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# Posted: 8 Sep 2008 13:44:51
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ValGal I love your post
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ValGal
Member
87
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# Posted: 12 Sep 2008 13:44:32
Reply
Haven't posted in a while, so I thought I'd offer an update.
After a few lonely and sad months, I've started dating someone new. We're still at that high-energy, exciting time in the beginning of a relationship and both of us are having a wonderful time. He's open to the idea of being in a long-term poly relationship, so while it's too early to know for sure where it will go, it seems like we're starting in a healthier place than I was in with my ex.
As for hubby, he's still pretty much on the same path. He seems comfortable with the idea of my new bf and with the understanding that I'm dating with intent to have a permanent relationship with another guy. I guess having things more sorted out helps...he knows what my motivations are, and everything seems more out in the open. Not that last time we were hiding anything - just that neither of us really knew how things would progress.
He's also still exploring his fem side more...it's becoming something he does more and more - lately, it's starting to be uncommon for me to see him in his male role at all, and even when he is, a lot of his fem gestures and traits still come through. I guess I've seen enough of it now that I'm not surprised any more, and it's sort of nice to have a partner that likes to go shopping as much as I do.
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dblue1
Member
118
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# Posted: 12 Sep 2008 16:28:26
Reply
In some ways it sounds like your husband is becoming like a gay best friend who is in love with you.
Are you looking for a guy to fall in love with?
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summerjester
Member
10
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# Posted: 13 Sep 2008 03:37:45
Reply
ValGal, this has been a very interesting thread. Thanks for sharing with us.
Do you still interact with your old boyfriend? A while back, you mentioned that you and he had friends in common. Does that pose difficulties? Have those friends fallen by the wayside?
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Cucked_Tom
Member
12
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2008 09:17:35
Reply
ValGal, I have loved reading your post. Not very many real people sharing real stories here. I am a true cuckold, but I don't have the fem side your husband has. I wish my wife were more like you. She does date, but hasn't and probably wont bring her lover to the house or have him live with us. Both of wich I would like to see happen. We still have great sex, but her lover always comes before me...and thats how it should be in our kind of relationships. I don't think your husband sees how wonderful you are, and how to treat you right. It does sound as if he is going down his own path.
I hope to continue reading more of your story as time goes by. It is refreshing to read about the real thing. Fantasies are great, but the real thing is so much better.
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imasub2000
Member
26
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2008 05:12:25
Reply
Hi ValGal, i just wanted to see how things were going with you. I hope all is going well!
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ValGal
Member
87
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2008 03:58:34
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Hi folks,
Haven't been online in a while, so thought I'd check in. Not much to report...things still seem to be about where I left them last time. My ex-bf and I did see each other a few times now that things have sort of "settled down". I guess both of us trying to decide if we did the right thing.
Anyway, I've been reading and talking to folks about the "poly" lifestyle and I suppose I've become more convinced that this is where I want to be. It's not really just about having a different/better sex partner - I want two hubbies, complete with the emotional ties and all that. Still not sure I know how to get it, but I'm accepting that if it doesn't come with all the trimmings, I'm probably not too interested.
Thanks to all those who checked in...I still think there are tons of pervs online in here - but maybe I'll admit there are one or two sincere people as well.
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draclif69
Member
1650
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2008 23:14:57
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Thanks ValGal. Count me in as one of your sincere followers. Glad things are at least neutral for you.
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mred4682
Member
173
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# Posted: 4 Nov 2008 11:40:26
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Good for you Val. If you can make the Poly lifestyle work for you and your husbands all the better.
"I still think there are tons of pervs online in here "
LOL... isn't everyone a perv depending on who you talk to?
Good luck to you.
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asehpe
Member
46
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# Posted: 17 Nov 2008 17:38:14
Reply
Pervs and nice people go together like Batman and Robin...
Valgal, I haven't been here for a while either, since I had a lot of personal problems to solve. I am glad to see you are finding your way to happiness, and I think I can say I am, too. In many ways, kinky and otherwise.
I have a question, though. You seem to like the poly lifestyle as if it were what you always wanted. But it seems you started out as much more vanilla than that. Do you feel you have changed--or do you think this is something in you that was always there, but is now coming out? (I think I'm scientifically interested in the question of whether people really change as they grow mature, or simply develop better potentialities that were there all the time.) Also, do you think two hubbies would be enough, or are you open for any possible future options should they appear?
I'll join those who thanked you for this thread. And I'll again wish you all the happiness. Your sincerity and your desire to grow without hurting yourself, your husband or your bf(s) is so much what I wished everybody thought about, in all kinds of interpersonal relationships!... Maybe you should write a book about all that in the future.
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ValGal
Member
87
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# Posted: 18 Nov 2008 16:45:41
Reply
Asehpe,
> I had a lotof personal problems to solve...
Sounds ominous...hope all is okay with you now.
As for your question, I'm not sure if it was something I could have ever articulated, but I see that the things I value in a partner are probably not to be found in a single individual. I think it's more about accepting my own needs, and then realizing that there are ways to have major portions of these needs met by different people in parallel, rather than denying them. This sounds simple, but certainly the solution I've picked is more extreme than what most people do, so I suppose there has to be some sort of innate preference that lets me go this way.
In my hubby, I've found a soft, warm, sensitive, caring person who has deep thoughts and feelings about nearly everything in life. He is my best friend and soul-mate for life, but that doesn't mean he can meet every last one of my needs.
The other guys I've been attracted to are sort of the other side of the coin...more masculine, powerful, take-charge. Sure, there's an undercurrent of caring and affection too, it just comes out in more traditionally "male" ways.
Rather than settle for one or the other, I think with hubby's original cuck desires, I found a way to accept that I could have both ends of the spectrum covered in my life. Once I got to the point where I could feel comfortable being in love with two men in different ways, it seemed very natural to me to setup my life this way.
As for whether two are enough...I think so. Many of the things I speak of are polar opposites (dominant or submissive...masculine or feminine...etc) and I think with the right two people, I can cover the full gamut of things I need to feel complete.
Besides, I'm learning it's difficult to be a loving wife to two guys at once - can't imagine juggling myself in a third (or whatever) direction.
In the way of an update for everyone else, I've been dating someone for a few months now that seems to have potential for a long-term thing. We have a great connection on a lot of levels, and he seems to understand the poly thing I want to achieve and isn't afraid of it. We have everything out on the table, and so far, everyone is comfortable with the arrangement and things are working out smoothly.
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dblue1
Member
118
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# Posted: 18 Nov 2008 17:25:44
Reply
Awesome update!
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enuro12
Member
107
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# Posted: 18 Nov 2008 17:34:38
Reply
yea great udate
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mred4682
Member
173
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# Posted: 19 Nov 2008 15:19:48
Reply
good update ValGal. I can see how the right people could make that work. Good luck to all three of you.
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imasub2000
Member
26
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# Posted: 20 Nov 2008 05:20:16
Reply
ValGal, thanks for the update. Im very happy to hear that you have found someone who might be the perfect fit for what your looking for. Wishing you all the best. Keep us updated
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asehpe
Member
46
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# Posted: 21 Nov 2008 04:28:45
Reply
Not so ominous... Many of the things were extended family problems that needed careful attention. Others were in my own psychology (I think my wife and I are reaching a quite comfortable situation in which she accepts more of my cuck side and we make it into a play topic, more to talk or do scenes about rather than something to enact in real life. That's actually been quite good thus far--it's dazzling to think of the possibilities.)
Interestingly, what you say sounds like finding a non-orthodox solution to the age-old problem of how to find Mr (or Ms) Right. I wonder if those people who think we're more like polymorph lovers may be right. Maybe simple vanilla monogamy is, after all, well... a kink. A solution to an equation of emotional and sexual needs, but not the only one; and perhaps the most popular one just because of sociocultural preferences... 
So you don't think you had to change something internally in transitioning from vanilla, Mr Right-should-be-able-to-cover-all-my-needs awareness to your current situation? Does it feel like 'I should have thought of this by myself' (in case hubby hadn't suggested it first)? (And, by the way, is hubby totally happy with a poly arrangement rather than the cuckold situation he seemed to want at first? He doesn't find it too far from his ideal?)
Hm, I'm asking too many questions. Maybe borderline impolite, but why not?
Anyway, let me add my own wishes that your poly marriage will flourish! I can imagine it must be a lot of work, but I suppose if everybody agrees on the ground rules and nobody feels cheated (in the bad sense of the word), you all may have a good chance. And if there's something this world is in need of, it's more happy people!
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ValGal
Member
87
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# Posted: 23 Nov 2008 21:11:37
Reply
Asehpe, yes, I did have to change my outlook pretty dramatically in order to get to this point. I was the typical "good girl" growing up, and I always imagined I'd have a pretty vanilla lifestyle - that is, one guy forever.
I have to give the "credit" to my hubby for pushing me past this stage. I guess his cuckolding desires eventually drove me to an epiphany where I realized things could be different. Still, I think hubby had something maybe different in mind...a wife who would just "cheat" on him. I think I took that idea and made it my own, mixing in my own values and so on.
So yeah, maybe I might have thought of it on my own, but I don't think so. I needed that initial spark to push me out of my comfort zone and to get me to accept that there were alternatives. Without this, it'd still be me and hubby plodding along like we were 3-4 years ago.
As for whether the poly arrangement suits hubby, I'm not sure. He seems happier in some ways, so I like to think it's okay with him. Certainly, it opened up his exploration of his feminine side as I detailed in earlier posts, so I think if nothing else, there's that.
Thanks for the kind wishes, although I wouldn't quite call it a poly marriage yet...we're more in the "poly dating" stages at the moment, although it does seem to be heading towards more.
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asehpe
Member
46
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# Posted: 26 Nov 2008 01:41:45
Reply
ValGal, as long as you are happy where you are--as long as you think it was worth it, that this epiphany actually brought something valid and worthwhile into your life, then I think it is for the better. It would only be a problem if you were 'forcing' yourself into a situation--but that doesn't seem to be the case at all, from what you say.
I wonder if every vanilla woman would eventually agree with you if she went through the stages you went through. My guess is no--people are sufficiently different from each other that some, maybe most, are probably really made for vanilla relationships. (No value judgement implied here.) Probably. But sometimes I wonder... (I remember quite enjoying Robert Heinlein's description, in his book The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, of a society in which marriages were always between a woman and two men.)
I'll be coming back here every now and then to see how you all are doing. Take care, and enjoy your situation as it unfolds!...
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